Joshua Seek

Personal Meanderings of Joshua Seek 
Filed under

emerging desert

 

Recycle Your Faith

Yesterday I had the opportunity to sit down with Craig Spinks of Recycle Your Faith and Quadrid Productions and do a little interview about my journey through my faith.  It was a very cathartic experience.  We chatted about thoughts, experiences, and changes in my faith, and my views on what's important.  The interview was a part of a larger interview with Emerging Desert, and Joy, Jim, Adam, and Jacob all contributed as well.  I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.  

Craig and his wife, Sara, have been on the road for the past four months visiting different faith communities and recording interviews with people along the way.  The videos on his website are reflective, sometimes offensive, but intriguing.  Definitely check them out if you're interested in honest talk about faith.

On a side note, Craig and I talked a bit at the end about how it's hard to talk about something so sensitive.  I told him that I felt a bit scared knowing that his video would be online for anyone to see, and the implications of that.  He told me that I wasn't alone:  Even people he has interviewed who spend their lives in the open, speaking about controversial topics, felt some hesitance before they sat down and had an honest conversation.  It's encouraging to know that is common to our experience.  When speaking of something like faith, that is so close to our hearts, we all feel a fear of rejection.

Check out the entire series at recycleyourfaith.com

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   emerging desert   faith   recycle your faith  

Comments [0]

Use Sexual Innuendo to Learn a New Language! [Funny]

My friend Sarah Gonski writes on her blog about a recent experience with Meetup.com and a Spanish learning group:

 

The Mister and I have been working hard on our Spanish. Both of us have always wanted to speak another language, and we currently nurture dreams for the not-too-distant future that include spending lots of time in Spain. Anyway, so we're at the point in our learning where what we really need are live conversations, mainly to help us improve our confidence.

So we found a few Spanish meetup groups on meetup.com (by the way, meetup.com is a little like the public library; awesome resource that not enough people use. We are in two Spanish meetups and a photography group and they have thousands of groups on all different themes: cooking, scrapbooking, reading, football, stay-at-home bilingual moms, and so on. In the internet age, there's truly no excuse for being bored or not having any place to meet new friends. So go on, and go forth).

So last night was our first night at this particular Spanish learning group. We timidly gave our competency level at beginner/intermediate, which turned out to be a mistake, as we're probably more like intermediate/advanced for this particular group. I don't feel braggy saying that, because I know that everyone here knows the feeling of fitting into a smaller size jeans that they thought they were, and this was exactly like that, so you all understand.

So we ended up doing a lot of worksheets, which we were a little bored with, to be honest, until we recieved a new list of phrases to translate.

You're very nice.

You're great.

At this point I'm thinking: "Oh, how nice! We're learning to be friendly."

You're very attractive.

I'm interested in you.

I like you very much.

"Well, that's a bit forward."

Do you like me too?

Can I kiss you?

Will you take me home?

"Hang on..."

 

Follow along after the jump (it get's worse)...

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   emerging desert   Funny   Sarah Gonski  

Comments [0]

A Six-Pack of House Churches

The Tall, Skinny Kiwi has posted six (well, seven) different types of house churches that we see emerging into the faith landscape.  I believe the group I'm involved with, EmDes, would likely fit into the first category. 

1 Off-the-grid house churches that intentionally do not want to be known, listed or be on anybody's radar. We find out about them by accident or through opinion polling or sampling, the kind of research George Barna does.

These OoCC (out of Church Christians) gatherings contain a lot of the God-yes-church-no crowd out there.


As a group, we tend to think that if you know about us, then we're doing something wrong!  Mostly being from backgrounds where we felt we had to "sell" our church to others, we shy away from letting others know about the community we're involved with.  But, interestingly, that has made it all the more intriguing to people!

More listed, after the jump...

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   Andrew Jones   emergent   emerging desert   House Church  

Comments [0]

“Church is Here” by Joy Shroeder [Communitas Collective]

I recently mentioned Joy's experience during EmDes' trip to Flagstaff.  She also wrote up a different version of this blog post for the Communitas Collective.  It's beautiful.  Check it out!

 

“Church is Here” by Joy Shroeder

church is herein just a few months it will be 4 years since i transitioned out of the “institution” & we began cultivating the refuge community.  it has been a wild ride, and i keep learning more than i had ever expected.  one of the  most glorious parts of the transition has been meeting some amazing diverse people both online and face to face.  i am so thankful for these friendships & connections, the weird way we breathe life and hope into each other near and far.  one of these friends is joy shroeder.  i met her through my blog and then had the privilege of getting to know the emerging desert community face to face on a visit out there last year.  it’s a beautiful group of exiles passionate about justice, love, and hope.   i love their heart, their questions, their dedication to being together.  joy wrote a piece for communitas collective a while back & i asked her to share again (and hope she will continue to share more).  she’s in the trenches of the transition out of the box & it is wild and scary and beautiful.  enjoy, kathy escobar

* * * * *

A year and a half ago, my family and I made the intensely difficult decision to leave the institutional church. Our exodus and subsequent self-imposed exile was mind-blowingly complex, confusing, and painful. I am just now clearing the fog and learning to forge ahead, despite the lack of parameters and absolutes. Moving towards rebuilding and creating something meaningful with fellow sojourners in our Emerging Desert cohort has been a lifeline.

My family has hosted this motley crew for a weekly Sunday gathering in our home, sometimes for upwards of 30 people including nearly a dozen kids, for as long as we’ve been “outside”. We collectively strive to embody Kingdom living, together sharing meals and sacraments, stories and struggles. There’s no real format, no hierarchy, no corporate singing or children’s ministry. All we really have is our commitment to each other and a deep desire to pursue Jesus and his Gospel. But questions keep nagging me, no matter how hard I try to block them out: Does this faith community qualify as “church”? And, a darker, more insidious question: Why do I need to know?

Questions come up frequently in casual conversations with friends or acquaintances who are curious about where I’ve been, why I don’t “go to church anymore” or why we’re not available for Sunday afternoon visits. It’s a weird kind of tension for me. I’ve had many awkward conversations, stumbling over my words and rambling practically incoherently as I try to explain. I usually end up saying something like, “We’re kind of a messy collection of questioners and quitters…but…it’s really not as bad as it probably sounds…and hey, by the way, we always have great home-brewed beer.” This isn’t really an exaggeration. Our beer is really good.

I’m sure it’s a no-brainer, especially to those who have successfully conquered the hangup of “what church is or isn’t” and have readily adopted a more simplistic description. For me, it’s like I have a tiny little evangelical-mega-church-loving ‘Jiminy Cricket’ in my sub-conscience who continues to point out all the reasons why the community of faith I am invested in “isn’t really church”. Fortunately, I experienced something very recently I believe may help move me toward turning a corner on this issue.

A few weeks back, several families in Emerging Desert converged in Flagstaff, Arizona for a weekend retreat, an event I had been anticipating for several weeks. Hanging out with people I love, all under one roof for two nights, our days and evenings revolving around great food and drink as well as the uninterrupted company of each other – it promised to become one of the most meaningful experiences of my year!

Friday afternoon, several unavoidable scheduling conflicts prevented our family from leaving our home on time. Once it became evident that we’d be late, I began to feel stressed and a little stupid for not doing a better job getting us all organized and out the door more promptly. I had volunteered to provide dinner for everyone that evening and like most Type A personalities, my tardiness was freaking me out.

We finally arrived, 45 minutes later than I had planned. I apologized sheepishly to anyone and everyone while imagining the worst to be unfolding behind the doors of the enormous vacation home. Visions of grumblings about late dinner and half-starved children wailing like banshees invaded my mind. Instead, what I overheard as my family hustled inside completely changed my demeanor and the direction my evening was headed, and subtly confronted my personal struggle with what to call our group and weekly gatherings.

Emma, the precocious five-year-old daughter of one of the other families, noticed us coming through the door with overflowing armloads of food to share, and joyfully exclaimed:

“Look, Mom! Church is here!”

Her untroubled words were powerful to me in that moment, in that space and surrounded by those particular people. Her conviction was solid, unlike mine. That single innocent exclamation brought some much-needed clarity to my previously muddied thinking. For the first time, I saw what Emma saw. We are church. She recognized us as “church”. It was so simple. I was dumbfounded at that moment, finally realizing that the thing we’ve been doing and who we are as part of Emerging Desert, is in some overt way, CHURCH.

I’ve spent the past season of my life wrestling with my faith – asking complex questions of it, twisting it and holding it up to the light, demanding perfection and definition at every turn. This moment was beautiful and pure, almost instantly allowing me to let go of my need for rules, titles and walls. Why had I not been able to see that the most meaningful expressions of faith are sometimes the most simple? Church, to Emma, was someone who brings food to the hungry. Church is spending time with friends in an unhurried way. And church involves listening to the wisdom in each other, even (especially?) the voice of a young child.

* * * * *

Schroeders 016bw_proofJoy Schroeder is a recovering conservative evangelical finding new hope through an unexpected faith community.  She resides in Mesa, AZ with her husband Jim and their 4 daughters.  Her blog is Give and Take.

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   church   community   emergent   emerging desert   joy schroeder   s  

Comments [1]

Why I am emergent

I might consider this a coming out of sorts.  Certainly, many people close to me know of my involvement with Emerging Desert.  This post is for the rest of you, but it's mostly for my own ability to write things out and have an explanation for my thoughts.

A few years ago I was a part of what many would consider a megachurch.  I was on staff there, I worked there, and I was deeply involved.  But there came a point when I couldn't be involved as much as I might have liked, due to college and work.  When this happened, I noticed my access to community dried up.  Many people I considered myself close to began to stop calling.  I was out of the club.

I attempted to get involved again, but I couldn't find a way back in.  One day, I went in and wrote on a "Get Involved" card that I wanted to help with anything that was needed.  With 30 different ministries, I figured there was someplace I could get involved.

I didn't get a single call.  Nor, when I left, did I hear anything either.  A friend of mine helped me connect with some other people that were planting a church in Phoenix.  I went with them and helped plant this church for a couple years.  I though that getting out of a large church would change everything.  It didn't.

My entrance into the emergent church conversation was through house churches.  I learned that I really wanted to be a part of, and plant, small churches where every person was empowered to serve one another.  I got to experience a bit of this through the church we planted in Phoenix, and I wanted to do more.  After leaving the church in Phoenix, I started meeting with some friends in their house, very informally, and exploring options.

At this same time, I was reading a lot of books and talking with people online and offline.  Frank Viola's books on the organic nature of the church were immensely helpful, as were books by Rob Bell, Donald Miller, and books from Jossey-Bass and Emersion Books (publishers). 

I met up with Emerging Desert earlier this year, and they are an amazing community of people who love people and love God.  I'm glad that they exist here in Phoenix.

That's the background... now on to why I am emergent...

To explain this, I'm going to use the framework of Tony Jones' "Dispatches from the Emergent Frontier":

Dispatch 1: Emergents practice a generous orthodoxy that appreciates the contributions of all Christian movements.

While I was involved with my reformed, Calvinistic tradition, I came to know many people who were not a part of my tradition.  People who were charismatic Calvinists, Armenians, orthodox, and many other segments of the Christian faith.  In those days, these people were the enemies.  Even though we both loved God, they believed wrongly - or imperfectly - and thus it was my job to tell them how they were wrong.  Little time was spent telling people who don't know that God wants to know them about his love.  But this nagging thing kept happening.  Every time I tried to attack others inside my own faith, the more they loved me!  Drat!

It was because of this that I realized that they were the same as me.  I was given the opportunity to get to know them as friends, not enemies.

Dispatch 2:  Emergents reject the politics & theologies of left versus right — they anticipate a more complex reality.

I was a hardcore right wing Christian.  But inevitably, following one party means that you abhor the sins of others while accepting the sins of your own.  I believed that abortion and gay marriage were wrong, but wars, executions, torture, and isolation was acceptable.  Even the solutions that we had for the things we thought were wrong didn't really solve the problem, they just legislated our morality.

This doesn't mean I swing to the other side and become a hardcore left-winger, but I see the good and the bad in both and live outside them - a third way.

Dispatch 3: The gospel is like lava: no matter how much crust has formed over it, it will find a way to burst through.

Dispatch 4: The emergent phenomenon began when a group began talking about how postmodernism was affecting the faith.

This is the world we live in, and the emergent conversation is talking about it.  This is why I want to talk about it. 

Dispatch 5: The emergent movement is not exclusively North American; it is growing around the globe.

One of my first introductions to emergent was through Andrew Jones (tallskinnykiwi), a New Zealander.  Many in the UK would say it started there, and they're probably right.  but the interesting thing is that these conversations started separately from each other.


Dispatch 6: Emergents see God’s activity in all aspects of culture and reject the sacred-secular divide.

My first experience with this was with a group of people who went to Four Peaks Brewery every week and just spent time with people there.  Normally, there would be a divide between the religious piety, and the secular beer-drinking culture. These people did not ascribe to that, and the sacred infiltrated the secular through them.

Dispatch 7: Emergents think that an envelope of friendship and reconciliation must surround all debates about doctrine.

How many times have you changed your opinion based on someone yelling at you from a street corner, shoving papers into your face, and telling you you're wrong?  For me, never.  Even when I look back at my own faith, every time I've had a change of opinion it's been based on a loving experience.  But my own practice, in the past, has not been the same.  The way I was taught to speak to others is to evangelize them.  Usually this involved tracts, a bullhorn, and debate forums - none of which have ever convinced me to change my mind, and were rarely, if ever, effective on others.  It is my belief now that any discussion must be surrounded by a mutual humility, friendship, and love.  Each conversation must end with more concern for the other than for yourself.

Dispatch 8: Emergents find the biblical call to community more compelling than the democratic call to individual rights.

Dispatch 9: Emergent is robustly theological; the conviction is that theology and practice are inextricably related.

This is described as "orthopraxy":  Our practice of our faith is more important than our beliefs about it.  Emergents are likely to engage in deep theological discussions, but we hold these discussions at arm's length.  We're more worried with how these ideologies lead us to engaging people, loving God, serving others, and living life.

Dispatch 10: Emergents believe that theology is local, conversational, and temporary.

Dispatch 11: Awareness of our relative position—to God & one another—breeds biblical humility, not relativistic apathy.

This is best said in Tony's book:

That theology is local, conversational, and temporary does not mean that we must hold our beliefs without conviction. This is a charge often thrown at emergent Christians, but it’s false. As a society, we’ve been wrong about all sorts of things in the past, like slavery….Our forebears held positions on these issues with deep conviction, but they were wrong. And I can say that unequivocally. At least I can say that from my vantage point – as one who came after them –they were wrong. What I cannot say is which side of those issues I would have been on a century or two ago. Nor can I say which issues I’m mistaken on today.

I am not relativistic.  I do believe in things earnestly.  But I know there are many things which I am wrong on, and that I will be wrong on in the future, so I must hold things with a humility.  The things I curse a friend on today my be the things I am force to reject tomorrow, creating a terrible experience of seeking forgiveness from the person I cursed. 

Dispatch 12: Emergents embrace the whole Bible, the glory and the pathos.

Dispatch 13: Emergents believe that truth, like God, cannot be definitively articulated by finite human beings.

My dad used to give us an example of our dog.  Our dog was a particularly stupid animal, convinced that every falling leaf was an attack on our property and deserving of a five-minute round of barking.  Our dog had no greater understanding of us than we do of God.  She understood certain things.  She knew what time of day we came home, she knew that going outside equated to receiving a slice of bread.  But she did not know what we did when we left for the day, or why we wore clothes.  Her understanding was limited to the information she had available.  It's the same with us and God.  We can understand to a point, but we will always fail to understand in whole.

Dispatch 14: Emergents embrace paradox, especially those that are core components of the Christian story.

Our God has a son born of a virgin.  He's three people, but also one.  He turns water into wine and walks on water and loves people that we hate.

Paradoxes.

Dispatch 15: Emergents have a hope-filled eschatology: it was good news when Jesus came & it will be when he returns.

I hated "Left Behind".  It was a threat to get kids to turn to Jesus so they could disappear instead of dealing with the world.  It will be a good day for the whole world.

Dispatch 16: Emergents believe that church should function more like an open-source network and less like a hierarchy.

Recently, someone said they wanted to speak to the pastor of our "house church"  I asked, "Which one?"  We are made up of many people who have the gifts of pastoring.  Several of the people who come are pastors at other churches.  So when it came to someone wanting to talk to a pastor, there were several people who were empowered and capable of doing this, because they had been freed to.

Dispatch 17: Emergents start new churches to save their own faith, not necessarily to make new converts.

It starts this way, but it grows from there.  In order to create a garden, you have to lay down a lot of dung.

Dispatch 18: Emergents believe that God’s Spirit is responsible for all good. Our task is to cooperate with God.

I used to feel that I had to curse the good taking place in others.  If they weren't Christians, if they weren't my form of christian, then anything good they did was suspect.  I don't see it this way anymore.  I know that God is the author of all good, and if there's something good happening in or through someone else, then I want to be a part of it.

Dispatch 19: Emergents downplay—or outright reject—the differences between clergy and laity.

See above.  Neither were meant to exist.

Dispatch 20: Emergents believe that church should be just as beautiful and messy as life.

And it is.  Our community is messy, unorganized, over-involved, and unwieldy at times.  And it's beautiful.  Things develop on their own.  Encouragement and challenges come as they will.  And it's fun.  It's been a while since I could say that faith is fun.

This post will continue to grow as I develop my thoughts more.  Writing these things is like a decompression.

 

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   christianity   emergent   emergent church   emerging desert   faith   postmodernism   spirituality  

Comments [0]

Emerging Desert trip to Flagstaff

Unfortunately, I didn't get to go on this trip, but Tara has shared some photos from the trip on Flickr!

I really want to talk about Joy's experience on Friday night.  Below is a copy of the blog she wrote about it:


"Church Is Here!"

Joining a few of our EmDes friends and families in Flagstaff for the weekend was an an event I had been anticipating for several weeks. Hanging out with people I love and enjoy so much...all under one roof, for 2 nights, in a climate reflecting 'true fall' temperatures...with our days and evenings revolving around great food and drink as well as the uninterrupted company of each other...could undeniably become one of the most memorable experiences of my year!
Friday afternoon, several unavoidable scheduling conflicts prevented our family from leaving the valley and arriving at our AMAZING weekend destination on time...(or at least in an acceptable time frame in my mind). Once it became evident that we'd be late...I began to feel stressed, irritated and a little stupid for not doing a better job getting my family organized and out the door promptly by 3:00pm. I had volunteered to provide dinner for everyone that evening and like all true blue type A personalities...I was freaking out. My imagination conjured thoughts of half starved children bawling for dinner...frustrated grown-ups making comments to never let 'Joy' volunteer to bring dinner 'opening night' of a retreat 3 hours away...ever again!
We finally arrived at the 'cabin' about 45 minutes later than I had planned...(totally UNACCEPTABLE...for me) I sheepishly apologized...imagining the worst to be unfolding behind the door of the enormous vacation home...BUT, what I heard as I hesitantly walked inside, followed by my husband Jim and our 2 youngest daughters...immediately changed my demeanor and the direction of the evening for me...

"MOM! Church is Here!" ~Emma age 5.

Emma's words weren't just child-like and cute...they were powerful to me in that moment and in that space. In my mild hysteria and growing anxiety, I could not have imagined hearing more endearing and encouraging words... ever! (And, these uttered by a hungry child no less?) Her statement became the buzz for the next few minutes...as the adults beamed and ribbed each other a little bit. That single exclamation captured my heart...Emma recognized us as 'church'...her church...I was dumbfounded as I realized that the thing we in EmDes collectively hope to have organically unfold in our little faith community...is that in some real and outward way we ourselves embody THE CHURCH. Sure the the grown-ups can make the connection, most of us have gone to great lengths to reconstruct what church is...but to hear such a strong affirmation from one of our kids...totally confirmed for me...that we are really and truly doing this thing...we are heading in the right direction...
I'm certain that I was offered a glass of wine at that point...a sincere effort by someone to help me 'get a grip'...but, all the previous freaking out and anxiety had already dissipated...Emma's statement " Church is here" reverberating in my head...at that moment...all was well with my soul!


With all the issues and baggage we had held in calling ourselves a church, in a moment of frustration and hurry, a child showed us the way.  It's much simpler than thinking about all the systems we have to put in place, and benchmarks we have to meet, before we embody Christ in ourselves and in our community.  Emma saw us as already doing that.  For Emma, this is what she has experienced as the church for the past two years. 

And that's beauty.

I love seeing a group of people who have come together, without knowing what they're called to, and living to love God and love others individually.  When we do it individual, it develops corporately.  If we were looking for organic, "emergent" community... Emma's eyes found it.

Loading mentions Retweet
Filed under  //   emergent   emerging desert   flagstaff  

Comments [0]